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Thread: STIC jetting thread:

  1. #1431
    KTMTalk Member Kels's Avatar
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesDean View Post
    This is a fair assessment by dmills, although a well tuned stock carb can idle perfectly for long periods.

    ===

    Discussing the float chamber pressure here is not relevant to ability to adapt to changing elevations, because the STIC float chamber is like every other carburetor (other than the Smartcarb). There are many brands of carbs that claim to adapt to changing elevations with no rational explanation, and for the purpose of marketing. A stock carb that is well tuned can adapt to a wide range of elevations too, as Kels has pointed out.

    One way that an argument can be made for a wider range of adapting to pressure changes is by running LEANER in gradually increasing throttle ranges. As we riders go to higher elevations, our motors make less power unless we use bigger throttle openings and higher rpms. The bigger throttle opening with leaner mid-range fueling will help make the motor stay running well at higher elevations. The STIC exhibits leaner fueling with higher rpms due to the air bleed into the needle jet. This tuning philosophy can only be made by compromising with a leaner throttle ranges and less-consistent fueling in mid-throttle. We can hide some of the inconsistency by running rich-to-lean, which in turn makes more of a "hit" to the power delivery. An aggressive hit in the power delivery isn't for everyone, and can be difficult to handle in technical conditions, like driving a muscle-car in stop'n'go traffic.

    The STIC is making a significant change in how fuel is being pulled up from the float chamber, using an Air-Bleed type needle jet to mix the fuel with air before passing thru the needle jet top. In the process of changing the needle jet, there is a main air-jet passage that surrounds the nozzle which is removed/discarded. The air passage (Primary Type pictured) uses the air hole to clear fuel from around the needle jet at low speeds. This change could be the reason that the off-idle 0-10% throttle works so well with the stock carb. Smaller bore motors pass by that low throttle range very quickly, and reading the reviews & videos should take into consideration both bike displacement and riding conditions when making comparisons.

    JD, Thanks for the post.. good info.

    Few questions if you don't mind answering.

    1)Have you found the STIC to have any "added" elevation and temperature compensation? If so, what elevations have you, personally, tested?

    2)Have you found the 125cc and the 300cc to use the same exact jetting specs at all elevations?

    3) Have you found the mixture that leaves the needle jet highly vaporous , ready for combustion?

    4) Have you found better runability from idle to 1/4 or 1/8 throttle over the stock Keihin block?

    5) Have you received approval of your credentials from Sidecarbod?

    In all seriousness.. these are the claims on the product.. What have been your findings?
    Last edited by Kels; 07-31-2020 at 12:19 PM.
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  3. #1432
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kels View Post

    5) Have you received approval of your credentials from Sidecarbod?
    He needs no approval from me, his posts speak for themselves, in a way just like yours.

  4. #1433
    KTMTalk Member AMO's Avatar
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by AMO View Post
    2014 200 xcw stock with exception of FMF Gnarly pipe and silencer.
    New 38 Carb form George with 210 main, 50 pilot N3EJ needle #4.
    Gas 91 non ethanol at 37:1ish

    Does the STIC work? In short YES! I previously had the head cut, which was a great improvement, but over the winter I did a total rebuild, with new stock Cylinder, Head, and Crank.(must of had a soft seizure)
    I had a couple of issues at first with a "burble" initial throttle response and also notice the bowl was overflowing. Took it all apart and change the needle position from 4th to middle. My first ride was eye opening...MUCH more power from the mid to the upper, crazy difference not just a little!!! I also own an 18 300. I would say it's very similar to a 250 in that rev range. Far exceeded my expectation in power. I really didn't want to post this yet because I believe I still need to dial it in a bit. The initial throttle response is good, no more hesitation, but I would like it to be a tad cleaner. I haven't had time to tinker with it, let alone ride as much as I would like.
    I am thinking of maybe first changing the main to 205, if anyone has thoughts I would love to hear them.
    All in all, I truly can not believe what a difference maker the STIC is...I can go up steep hills (I'm 230lbs with gear) without even clutching and it just keeps climbing like I'm on my 300, crazy. Every gear now revs to the moon with authority!!! It is incredible now and I really think I can get it a bit better. Hopefully, someone can chime in with a similar 200 and give some advice regarding jetting....It seems typical jetting rules do NOT apply to the STIC.

    I guess I put my initial review thoughts on the STIC in the wrong thread...😂
    Ď18 KTM 300 XCW
    '12 Husaberg 300 TE Woods Weapon 116 FOR SALE
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    '02 Husky 125 WR Buddy Bike and sold to my Buddy
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    '04 KTM 300 MXC sold
    '02 KTM 200 EXC sold
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  5. #1434
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by AMO View Post
    I guess I put my initial review thoughts on the STIC in the wrong thread...😂
    AMO: thank you for your great response. The first thing to check is the float needle and seat to make sure it is sealing, the fuel flowing out the overflow concerns me as the engine could run and consume the overflowing fuel. There are several procedures on checking the float level, however, that would not address a bad float needle and seat. You should remove the carburetor, take the float bowl off install a short piece of fuel line on the fuel inlet, let the carburetor float hang down, while blowing into the fuel line, slowly rotate the carburetor until you hear the air blown into the line, it will stop, observe the float position when the air stops flowing. Email me at vortex@sticfuel.us and give me your name and your handle AMO, so I can match you with the invoice. In the alternative, you could send me your carburetor and I will check everything (no-charge) I will return it same day I receive it.

  6. #1435
    KTMTalk Member 200meister's Avatar
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    [QUOTE=Kels;5500404]
    Quote Originally Posted by dmills View Post
    We did not have any issues with the block above the 1/4 throttle..Ran fine. Did not see big improvements over the stock block, but it was not worse like at the lower throttle positions..
    ...throws shade, much. Now this seems to be getting down to it. Quite a gesture to acknowledge some sort of improvement, eh. /s In the minds of users, this may put into question Kels ability to differentiate performance changes. Just sayin'

    It appears he prefers to understate, as opposed to overstate. Izzy British? Don't come at me, your lot!
    Understate, overstate..."lets call the whole thing off". Is this mic working...tap tap
    04/06 200SX +Showa TC fork and STIC
    04 KX125 +STIC
    04 Scorpa SY250 ?STIC

  7. #1436
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    For the naysayers that think we have not tested against everyone including the stock Keihin PWK air striker, yes we have. See the video from well respected Mark from TOKYO OFF-Road, who also sells the RK Tech head, Go figure eh!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv17qRAL1pI

  8. #1437
    KTMTalk Member 200meister's Avatar
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by AMO View Post
    2014 200 xcw stock with exception of FMF Gnarly pipe and silencer.
    New 38 Carb form George with 210 main, 50 pilot N3EJ needle #4.
    Gas 91 non ethanol at 37:1ish

    Does the STIC work? In short YES! I previously had the head cut, which was a great improvement, but over the winter I did a total rebuild, with new stock Cylinder, Head, and Crank.(must of had a soft seizure)
    I had a couple of issues at first with a "burble" initial throttle response and also notice the bowl was overflowing. Took it all apart and change the needle position from 4th to middle. My first ride was eye opening...MUCH more power from the mid to the upper, crazy difference not just a little!!! I also own an 18 300. I would say it's very similar to a 250 in that rev range. Far exceeded my expectation in power. I really didn't want to post this yet because I believe I still need to dial it in a bit. The initial throttle response is good, no more hesitation, but I would like it to be a tad cleaner. I haven't had time to tinker with it, let alone ride as much as I would like.
    I am thinking of maybe first changing the main to 205, if anyone has thoughts I would love to hear them.
    All in all, I truly can not believe what a difference maker the STIC is...I can go up steep hills (I'm 230lbs with gear) without even clutching and it just keeps climbing like I'm on my 300, crazy. Every gear now revs to the moon with authority!!! It is incredible now and I really think I can get it a bit better. Hopefully, someone can chime in with a similar 200 and give some advice regarding jetting....It seems typical jetting rules do NOT apply to the STIC.
    Bump
    04/06 200SX +Showa TC fork and STIC
    04 KX125 +STIC
    04 Scorpa SY250 ?STIC

  9. #1438
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kels View Post
    JD, Thanks for the post.. good info.

    Few questions if you don't mind answering.

    1)Have you found the STIC to have any "added" elevation and temperature compensation? If so, what elevations have you, personally, tested?

    2)Have you found the 125cc and the 300cc to use the same exact jetting specs at all elevations?

    3) Have you found the mixture that leaves the needle jet highly vaporous , ready for combustion?

    4) Have you found better runability from idle to 1/4 or 1/8 throttle over the stock Keihin block?

    5) Have you received approval of your credentials from Sidecarbod?

    In all seriousness.. these are the claims on the product.. What have been your findings?
    Was looking forward to James reply. If this product offered the wide range of compensation that has been claimed...and had been verified by many guys. I would order one tonight. But understandably, there's not a whole lot of people that ride vastly different elevations and have the ability to test that claim. The STIC running rich on long downhills doesn't particularly bother me...being that I've gotten used to blipping the throttle on long decents every 10 seconds or so, so the carb won't load up. In my opinion, there probably isn't amotorcycle carb out there that wouldn't load up under these conditions
    18' 250xc, 11' 300XC, 12' 300xcw, 14' 200xcw, and an 05' CRF450 that collects dust. AMA District 37 - Rovers MC

  10. #1439
    KTMTalk Member JamesDean's Avatar
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kels View Post
    JD, Thanks for the post.. good info.

    Few questions if you don't mind answering.

    1)Have you found the STIC to have any "added" elevation and temperature compensation? If so, what elevations have you, personally, tested?

    2)Have you found the 125cc and the 300cc to use the same exact jetting specs at all elevations?

    3) Have you found the mixture that leaves the needle jet highly vaporous , ready for combustion?

    4) Have you found better runability from idle to 1/4 or 1/8 throttle over the stock Keihin block?

    5) Have you received approval of your credentials from Sidecarbod?

    In all seriousness.. these are the claims on the product.. What have been your findings?
    The STIC evaluations I've made have been from sea level to 6000ft, didn't need to have jetting changes made, and didn't load-up or have issues. The bike pulled hard with the STIC at 6000ft. We've run both the Mikuni TMX and a standard Keihin PWK over that elevation range in the same conditions with good running. This goes back to your comments that any well tuned carb can span a wide range of elevations with no jetting changes and maintain good performance, and also my comment that a leaner mid-range fueling will allow changing elevation with less loss of performance.

    The 125 and 300 motors never use the same jetting, due to the bigger motors having a stronger intake, and thus use a leaner jetting combination. The STIC JD jet kit has a different setting for the 125/150 than the 250/300. A 500cc motor uses much smaller main jets than a 125, and otherwise would be running rich. The worst case is a 125 held wide open at lower rpms causing bogging from running lean. The positive comments in this thread support the STIC helping smaller motors to a greater degree IMHO.

    The vapor or aeration levels from the air bleed needle jet aren't something we can measure.

    The STIC low throttle range was discussed earlier, and results are close to a stock Keihin carb off-idle. Lower number slides are richer, higher number slides run more clean and smoother. It's debatable whether the STIC is as good/responsive/crisp in the first 10% throttle vs a standard Keihin PWK, probably quicker response than a Mikuni though.
    Credentials? -I'd rather go riding than spend time talking about it.
    www.JDJetting.com
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    '18 TE250i TPI, Now a 300i, JD EFI 250/300 Tuner
    '18 300 XCW - Mikuni TMX JDJet Kit (S-4 Needle Jet), Jet Block Gasket Fix
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    '08 530EXC FCR Carb Kit, Dual Spray Accelerator Pump, and Super-Motard Wheels

  11. #1440
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Good post James. In your opinion, what are the advantages of the stic over a standard keihin?
    18' 250xc, 11' 300XC, 12' 300xcw, 14' 200xcw, and an 05' CRF450 that collects dust. AMA District 37 - Rovers MC

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