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Thread: STIC jetting thread:

  1. #1911
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesDean View Post
    The STIC needle jet and jet block have STAGES in the atomizer tube, where the atomizing occurs with air mixing with fuel. The lower air-bleed holes are submerged in fuel initially, and then become exposed with higher rpms and flow rate to allow a LEANER air/fuel mixture to progressively occur with rising engine speeds.

    Pictures below can help give some insights and understanding of the basic concepts, independent of the designer.

    STIC Atomizer Tube_



    Air/fuel mixture results in different throttle ranges.
    These KTM 300 dynamometer testing results are from the early version STIC with 114 needle jet, which have a richer low throttle, leaner high throttle & RPM, and demonstrate the early-RICH and transitioning to higher RPM-LEAN fueling.

    The RED graph line is an extraordinary example of running richer-to-leaner in STAGES as the atomizer holes were being exposed, and the results graph is measuring the changes in steps (low/rich, to high/lean).



    Here is a short explanation of the stage-type air bleed process from Dellorto carburetors using atomizer tubes-




    --




    ===================

    Your standard Keihin, Mikuni, Lectron, Smart Carb.... needle jets have NO AIR BLEED holes in the atomizer tube. They ALL trend from leaner-to-richer as RPM rise for a given (fixed) throttle position.
    The flow rate and proportions of air/fuel moving richer is inherent to the design as fuel flow increases and air pressure drops (becoming less-dense with oxygen) , making higher RPM run rich.

    The end-result is HUGE main jets are used in the STIC, which does NOT mean the STIC is rich, but actually can be lean with main jets near #200.




    In addition to great performance with the STIC high vaporizing system, the tear down at 150 hours shows there is minimum wear, great durability, and great lubrication. Notice how clean the exhaust side of the piston is on the exhaust side, and notice the intake side of the RK Tech head, noting how clean the intake side is. The STIC process delivers a high velocity air fuel mixture that shows a very clean burn process. This has relevance to the above dyno report by James that proves the STIC does indeed deliver a cleaner leaner air fuel mixture in the upper rpm range, just the opposite of standard carburetion. The larger main jets utilized in the STIC metering system does not run rich. In the attached dyno report see the Quote from James: "...The end-result is HUGE main jets are used in the STIC, which does NOT mean the STIC is rich, but actually can be lean with main jets near #200...."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hFqWWUh1xI&t=10s
    Last edited by STIC Fuel Systems; 11-21-2020 at 06:55 PM.

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  3. #1912
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Back to report from the weekend. After seeing James D. most recent carb setting selection I decided I want to try them as well. I was running (38mm, .113a, 8 slide, 52p, 190m, 4 AS, white needle 4th clip) and changed my settings to 38mm, .113a, 6.5 slide, 50p, 190m, 3.5 AS, white needle 3rd clip. I love this setup more than previous. The previous setup was great in the slower technical but I felt a slight lean in the mid range (4th gear, in sand, mid throttle, I couldn't roll into the power, I would have to crack her open to get fuel and get her to pull) With the setup I am running now the bike pulls very hard in the mid and top range and tamed down the off throttle punch. Still zero burble and no need to constantly burp the throttle to keep her clear and ready, I had to do this with red needle and stock settings. Reason I chased the leaner bottom with the 8 slide originally. All in all I am very happy with the white needle and the combination I stated above. Thank you James for the settings and constant tests to get the best results! Thank you George for letting us have something worth while to tinker that gives amazing results!

  4. #1913
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Slightly Amature, thanks for the compliments, they are greatly appreciated. I along with our testers worked extremely hard to bring the STIC to this level of performance. And thanks to James from JD Jetting for making the needle we needed to make it a complete package. We found several Suzuki needle that were like what we needed; however, not quite what we needed. To my amazement James made the needle we needed, and this was based on input from Sidecarbod, RC 250, Harris Performance, and others. Ultimately James made the needle from the input of others as well as James’ vast experience, he designed the needle from the ground up to the finished product. Call me at 715-479-7822, I have a Christmas Gift for you. George
    Last edited by STIC Fuel Systems; 11-22-2020 at 01:16 PM.

  5. #1914
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Slightly Amature View Post
    Back to report from the weekend. After seeing James D. most recent carb setting selection I decided I want to try them as well. I was running (38mm, .113a, 8 slide, 52p, 190m, 4 AS, white needle 4th clip) and changed my settings to 38mm, .113a, 6.5 slide, 50p, 190m, 3.5 AS, white needle 3rd clip. I love this setup more than previous. The previous setup was great in the slower technical but I felt a slight lean in the mid range (4th gear, in sand, mid throttle, I couldn't roll into the power, I would have to crack her open to get fuel and get her to pull) With the setup I am running now the bike pulls very hard in the mid and top range and tamed down the off throttle punch. Still zero burble and no need to constantly burp the throttle to keep her clear and ready, I had to do this with red needle and stock settings. Reason I chased the leaner bottom with the 8 slide originally. All in all I am very happy with the white needle and the combination I stated above. Thank you James for the settings and constant tests to get the best results! Thank you George for letting us have something worth while to tinker that gives amazing results!
    Slightly Amature, thanks for the compliments, they are greatly appreciated. I along with our testers worked extremely hard to bring the STIC to this level of performance. And thanks to James from JD Jetting for making the needle we needed to make it a complete package. We found several Suzuki needle that were like what we needed; however, not quite what we needed. To my amazement James made the needle we needed, and this was based on input from Sidecarbod, RC 250, Harris Performance, and others. Ultimately James made the needle from the input of others as well as James’ vast experience, he designed the needle from the ground up to the finished product. Call me at 715-479-7822, I have a Christmas Gift for you. George

  6. #1915
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by ktmark View Post
    Can't thank you enough for the STIC
    been racing continuously since 94' ...past top 10 A class GNCC for 12 straight years
    installed the STIC as set up from George
    on a very good running tuned16' Ktm 150 sx
    have tried a few aftermarket hop up parts but
    have never used anything that has made as big of an impact as the STIC
    my friends say my 150 runs like a 175 with more crazy over rev than any 125
    in fact top end HP so is off the chart that i rarely go there because the power/smoothness is
    so good everywhere else. It is easier to ride & every gear pulls better & longer
    paid retail & worth every penny
    Ktmark, thank you for your kind words. I appreciate your willingness and time to experiment for the right combination for your application. Call me at 715-479-7822, I have a Christmas Gift for you. George

  7. #1916
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    The mechanics of the STIC processor: reviewed by Dick, Jane, and Spot
    (Trusted charters from the nursery rhyme from the past; Dick, Jane, and Spot).

    (Jane): “Wait a minute Dick, are you saying the STIC will improve the performance just by itself? How can it do that? Do you mean all we have to do is install the new STIC metering block into the stock Keihin carburetor.”
    (Dick): “That right Jane, all we have to do is remove the original metering block, and install the new STIC metering block, and hang on.” (Dick): “Look Jane, Spot is wagging his tail, I think he approves.” (Dick): “I will call George and he will explain how it works.” Jane sighs with relief and Spot wags his tail.

    (George): Yes, without changing anything on or in the engine, the performance increase is attributed to a more efficient burn rate of the air fuel mixture with greater surface area and a denser colder air fuel charge, as well as the ability to deliver a more powerful mixture to the combustion chamber, thus creating more power and acceleration throughout the entire operating range. Who knew that was where the power and overall performance was? STIC knew and designed a system that would do it!

    Part I of III;

    (George): “Hi Dick and Jane, I see you brought Spot along, here are the basics, I wrote it in layman's terms, so it should be relative easy to understand.” Dick and Jane sigh with relief. (Dick ): “I think it will be easy to understand, can we call if we need further information?” (George): “No problem, call anytime.”

    ¶ 1 Quantum physics addressing the combustion process; “…… explains, the molecules must be changed into their consistent atoms before they can form the final exothermic molecules consisting of H2O (water) and CO2 (carbon Dioxide) and other residuals……”

    ¶ 2 In the real world, when raw and partially atomized fuel enters the combustion chamber of a Internal Combustion Engine (ICE); from this point; where ignition occurs; a very small portion of the air fuel in the combustion chamber; after the initial explosion; it is enough to cause what we term collateral combustion (haphazard); thus, there is no assurance that all the fuel will burn. In fact, when a globule (large drop) of fuel is exposed to ignition; only the surface fuel molecules that have proximity to the oxygen will burn. Therefore, it is important to cause greater proximity (nearness) of the fuel molecules to the oxygen molecules during the intake and combustion process.
    Last edited by STIC Fuel Systems; 11-22-2020 at 04:28 PM.

  8. #1917
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    (Dick): “Hey Jane, George’s explanation is really interesting and it is starting to make sense. He said if you reduce the pressure above the fuels Reid pressure (6.7 and 15 psi), it makes sense that you could more readily vaporize the fuel. And who knew that the STIC could create a remote artificial low pressure drop above the fuel and independent of the float bowl and atmospheric pressure, wow this is getting exciting.


    Part II

    ¶ 3 With the fuel in BNG-06 tube; (emphasis added — or any targeted flow); while the fuel is in a static position, prior to any movement; the initial movement (spin) is started with the slightest (minutest) movement of air or fuel causing a small low pressure drop at the BNG-06 exit (or related connective passages; such as the idle/intermediate passages) — this will cause the STIC BNG-09 acceleration well to discharge its contents into the BNG-06 targeted flow. The BNG-09 acceleration cavity is connected to the to the targeted cavity; in this case the BNG-06 cavity via connective passages BNG-01C, BNG-01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, etc.


    ¶ 4 The STIC’s outer acceleration chamber process spins the contents within the BNG-06 central flow in a centrifugal manner. The spin continues as portions of the central flow’s outer peripheral exits into the outer acceleration chamber, this happens over and over. From this point, the outer chamber fuel is forced to pass through a series of adiabatic passages wherein the gaseous oxygen is forced to merge with the fuel and to be entrained (combined) within the fuel.
    Last edited by STIC Fuel Systems; 11-22-2020 at 05:34 PM.

  9. #1918
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by snopro753 View Post
    Video footage of the infamous "Moose Run" in Morrison, IL. Setup is Keihin 38/48 taper bore, STIC .113A, 50 pilot, 190 main, JD Blue Clip # 3. Air temp was 35 degrees F.

    This ride is a lot of everything, wide open and tight woods. A good test of the STIC. I know the white needle is the hot ticket for others but I am not giving up my Blue, it's the perfect needle for my bike.

    https://youtu.be/RqFNWwJIaaY
    you have 38/48 ?

    I have a 36/39 Kehin and I would like to try my STIC in it ,

    presently STIC is in my stock 38 & am very happy

    would you say my jetting would need to change much ?
    2016 ktm 150sx set-up for mx & offroad

  10. #1919
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by ktmark View Post
    you have 38/48 ?

    I have a 36/39 Kehin and I would like to try my STIC in it ,

    presently STIC is in my stock 38 & am very happy

    would you say my jetting would need to change much ?
    Typo on my part, 38 to 40 mm taper bore. George offered this a while back prior to the A series tube on carbs he sold with block installed.
    2017 300 XC - Keihin 38 w/STIC
    2016 250 XCF - H.P. 270cc kit
    2003 125SX - 200 project

  11. #1920
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Part III:

    (Dick): Hey Jane, I think I now get it; the STIC invention is a series of cleverly designed physical processes (interconnected passages) all based on, thermodynamics, chemistry, and physics, and designed to work together. Did I mention; much like other carburetors there are no moving parts in the STIC process except for the slide and the float. In fact, George told me 90% of patented existing carburetor circuitry (passages) have no moving parts, the exception being power valves, accelerator pumps, and various types of associated linkage. Jane, part III has greater detail and requires some careful reading, make sure you have your glasses on.


    ¶ 5 The BNG-06, and BNG-09 cavities have connective passages BNG-01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, etc. Most of these passages are vectored in the direction of the BNG-06’s longitudinal axis and they enter tangent to the BNG-06’s outer peripheral; thus imparting a spin into the targeted flow on a continuous basis (emphasis added; the BNG-06 flow).

    ¶ 6 The BNG-01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, etc., passages; by design, have a shearing suction on the inside of the BNG-06 cavity — (their initial vacuum [suction] is created by the flow and displacement through the BNG-06 passage) — with its connection to the BNG-09 cavity. This causes the inside of the passages BNG-01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, etc., to have an attractive lower pressure (suction); this is also enhanced by their expansion feature as they expand into the larger BNG-06 cavity . These BNG-01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, etc., passages are now conducive to receiving flows of the hotter, heavier molecules and forces from the higher pressure BNG-09 cavity that emanates from the BNG-01C (passages) that receives portions of flows from the BNG-06’s outer peripheral.

    ¶ 7 Upon sensing a demand (pressure drop) the BNG-09 acceleration well, discharges its contents into the targeted flow (emphasis added — the BNG-06 flow) in a twisting longitudinal direction merging with and vectored toward and throughout the BNG-06’s longitudinal axis. The BNG-09 contents discharge into the BNG-06 tube thus adding additional air, fuel, vapor within the BNG-06 cavity; these combined flows discharge into the BNG-06’s exit into the main air stream.

    ¶ 8 BNG-01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, etc., passages that connect with the BNG-09 cavity to the BNG-06 cavity are located throughout the BNG-06’s length. The location of the BNG-01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06, etc., passages allows the discharge from the BNG-09 cavity to combine with the BNG-06 liquid as well as the air space (ullage - air head-space) within the BNG-06’s entire length.

    (To be continued, I am adding part IV)
    Last edited by STIC Fuel Systems; 11-23-2020 at 11:31 AM.

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