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Thread: STIC jetting thread:

  1. #841
    KTMTalk Member
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by STIC Fuel Systems View Post
    As we talked: the STIC has a very aggressive acceleration system and it is better suited to a Keihin Air Striker 38mm for the 125 through 500 cc engines; the 250 with the 38mm Keihin Air Striker would typically use the 113A tube with 190 main, 50 pilot jet and 3 1/2 turns on the air rew. With the 125cc use the .113A or the .114A tube; all orders after February 15, 2020, will ship with both tubes. Contact STIC Headquarters at vortex@sticfuel.us ----

    The Keihin 38mm Air Striker and JD STIC Jetting Kit are highly recommended for all applications from the 125 through 500. With the STIC's higher degree of delivering a more vaporous air/fuel mixture, this improves the pipe scavenging thus improving the airflow volume and velocity through the engine.

    As you can see velocity is part of the equation in determining CFM through the engine; as you increase the speed through the combustion chamber and the scavenging speed this is imparted to the carburetor bore. "The equation to find cubic feet per minute is Q = V x A where Q is the velocity in cubic feet per minute, V is the velocity in ft/sec, and A is measured in square feet or feet squared." It is obvious that the STIC increases the acceleration without changing anything in or on the engine; thus, it is easy to reason; that the increase in performance is attributed to the STIC's ability to deliver a more powerful air/fuel vaporous mixture to the engine's combustion/exhaust system. Although the STIC will fit the 36 and 38mm carburetor; with the STIC's aggressive acceleration system; there is no need to use the 36mm carburetor; as the 38mm will be easier to jet and will deliver greater performance.
    i believe you george but anyone with a ktm up to 2016 has a 36mm carb stock so if you can get the settings rite it's a lot cheaper just buying the stic block and it still increases power allot, after all the testing i have done i reckon harris racing is spot on with his suggested setting for the 36mm carbs increase Pilot jet 1 to 2 sizes, 4 to 5 on the main but with the new 113A tube the needle clip needs be one notch richer or and grab a JD needle

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  3. #842

    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    How to jet the STIC and addressing a hanging idle (high speed) condition:

    Here is a fact that may be disputed; smaller Keihin main jets (in the 172 to 182 range in conjunction with a small pilot jet) will start to flow fuel sooner due to their smaller diameter; especially when used with a needle that has a large upper section and larger tip needle; this can cause a siphoning effect caused by the overall reduction in the area surrounding the needle; this can cause a hanging high-speed condition when coming back to idle causing a higher hanging speed in the idle position.

    The STIC depending on the altitude; will run very well with main jets ranging from 172 to 210; however, the greater performance is achieved with the larger Keihin main jets (range 190 through 210). The STIC’s larger air screw settings (in the 3 to 4 out range) serves two purposes. The STIC idle/intermediate and main jet system vapor production is designed to be near the bore of the carburetor; this allows the instant transition from idle to main; and back from main to idle/intermediate. Use of a more aggressive air screw setting (3 to 4 out range) provides two functions; (1): the air screw provides supplementary air to the pilot jet fuel that is bled into the main jet system all the way to wide open; the pilot jet and its connective air passages; this is designed to be progressive as the throttle is moved just off idle. (2): The STIC’s more aggressive air screw settings serve to siphon break the larger pilot jet as well as siphon breaking the STIC’s aggressive acceleration system and instant transitioning features.

    In order to determine main jetting; first work with the needle; moving the needle up (bottom clip) will make the carburetor richer; moving the clip to the top will make the carburetor leaner. If this does not correct the condition; go up or down on the main jet

    Now consider working with the needle again; going through the needle sequence again. Re-set the air screw back to the original setting of 3 to 4 turns out and resume jetting. The various circuits in the STIC are designed to work in harmony. Other key advice; oil to fuel ratio should be 40:1; this seems to work the best for jetting the STIC; ironically the 500cc and the 125cc jet the same; 200 main, 50 pilot; this is due to the STIC’s sensing system that allows it to know where it is. Due to the STIC’s overrev ability; consider using a torque pipe (slightly longer); also consider using a lower gear ratio as the STIC reacts to a lower numerical ratio; say 14:50 verses a 14:52; even lower! For the 125cc and for greater fuel flow the .114A is available February 1st, 2020
    Last edited by STIC Fuel Systems; 01-25-2020 at 06:33 PM.

  4. #843

    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by dmills View Post
    i believe you George but anyone with a ktm up to 2016 has a 36mm carb stock so if you can get the settings rite it's a lot cheaper just buying the stic block and it still increases power allot, after all the testing i have done i reckon harris racing is spot on with his suggested setting for the 36mm carbs increase Pilot jet 1 to 2 sizes, 4 to 5 on the main but with the new 113A tube the needle clip needs be one notch richer or and grab a JD needle
    From your recent posting addressing your use of the stock 36mm are you saying the stock 36mm with a mere increase in the main jet up 4 to 5 sizes and the pilot 1 to 2 sizes will be better than using a STIC Metering Block? We find the STIC outperforms the stock 36 by a substantial amount.

  5. #844

    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    STIC New Tuning JD instructions and new STIC 2020 features;

    Update: January 25, 2020; welcome to the “STIC Rapid Transit System.”

    New STIC Keihin Air Striker 38mm carburetor. When you buy a New complete carburetor from STIC Headquarter; they will come with the highly recommended JD STIC jetting kit. See the following additional features. The JD STIC jetting kit is STIC specific; it is not the regular JD kit.

    New JD STIC jetting kit:
    New; carburetor will come with two tubes; the new .113A" and the new .114A "
    New 7mm fuel line (8 inches), with clamps:
    New longer air screw spring (.100" longer):
    The top of the carburetor (cable area) is milled (.200"). Remove brass insert; install original cable; the .200" is removed to allow more free play; no need to buy another cable:
    Float level set to specifications; all passages checked for proper flow:
    New STIC block (6061 aircraft aluminum); STIC tube marine brass:
    New CRI-SIL Florosilicone thicker Gasket (fuel and oil resistant)
    Starting January 15, 2020; the STIC Keihin A/S carburetor will come with two new tubes; the 2.870mm (aka the .113A") and the 2.900mm (aka the .114A"). These are precision machined and have the new additional emulsion holes.

    STIC instructions with JD Jetting for 125cc through 500cc (updated)

    ¶ 1 We stock the new Keihin carburetors; JD STIC jetting kits, and additional jets.
    The JD jetting Kit; is specifically designed for the STIC; and is highly recommended and is mandatory for maximum performance. STIC tuning tips; what does it mean when adjusting the STIC air screw in to 2 ½ turns makes it run better? This means you need more main system fuel; turning the air screw in makes the carburetor richer; less air into the pilot jet will also make the main system richer; as the pilot jet is blended into the main jet just off idle. The air screw should be set at 3 to 4 turns out.

    How to jet the STIC; addressing a hanging idle (high speed) condition:

    ¶ 2 Here is a fact that may be disputed; smaller Keihin main jets (in the 172 to 182 range in conjunction with a small pilot jet) will start to flow fuel sooner due to their smaller diameter; especially when used with a needle that has a large upper section and larger tip needle; this can cause a siphoning effect caused by the overall reduction in the area surrounding the needle; this can cause a hanging high speed condition when coming back to idle causing a higher hanging speed in the idle position. The STIC depending on the altitude; will run very well with main jets ranging from 172 to 210; however, the greater performance is achieved with the larger Keihin main jets (range 190 through 210). The STIC’s larger air screw settings (in the 3 to 4 out range) serves two purposes. The STIC idle/intermediate and main jet system vapor production is designed to be near the bore of the carburetor; this allows instant transition from idle to main; and back from main to idle/intermediate. Use of a more aggressive air screw setting (3 to 4 out range) provides two functions; (1): the air screw provides supplementary air to the pilot jet fuel that is bled into the main jet system all the way to wide open; the pilot jet and its connective air passages; this is designed to be progressive as the throttle is moved just off idle. (2): The STIC’s more aggressive air screw settings serves to siphon break the larger pilot jet as well as siphon breaking the STIC’s aggressive acceleration system and instant transitioning features.
    ¶ 3 In order to determine main jetting; first work with needle; moving the needle up (bottom clip) will make the carburetor richer; moving the clip to the top will make the carburetor leaner. If this does not correct the condition; go up or down of the main jet.

    ¶ 4 Now consider working with the needle again; going through the needle sequence again. Re-set the air screw back to the original setting of 3 to 4 turns out and resume jetting. The various circuits in the STIC are designed to work in harmony. Other key advice; oil to fuel ratio should be 40:1; this seems to work the best for jetting the STIC; ironically the 500cc and the 125cc jet the same; 200 main, 50 pilot; this is due to the STIC’s sensing system that allows it to know where it is. Due to the STIC’s overrev ability; consider using a torque pipe (slightly longer); also consider using a lower gear ratio as the STIC reacts to a lower numerical ratio; say 14:50 verses a 14:52; even lower! For maximum performance; the new JD Jetting kit for the STIC metering Block is highly recommended. The JD STIC tuning kit for the STIC Metering block is STIC specific and is available from STIC headquarters (vortex@sticfuel.us); MB*DBB-Performance; KPR Racing, Harris performance (Derek); TOKYO Off-Road, and JD Jetting. This STIC kit has been engineered by the founder of JD Jetting James; take his advice. The kit includes the following: main jets, (180 to 200), pilot jet #50, new longer stronger spring; two needles; Red II-II; leaner top, Blue IIII, richer top) — both have a smaller tapered tip (approx. .055”).

    STIC needle information:

    ¶ 5 Free replacement of the older .114 and .115 tubes; with the new .113A or the .114A. They will be replaced (free; no charge). You must send metering block back to STIC Fuel Systems; or send the entire carburetor and I will upgrade the carburetor; float level set, all necessary adjustments (no charge). STIC needle tuning options; the preferred options are the JD Red (STIC) II-II — JD Blue STIC (IIII) and the N3EJ.

    ¶ 6 The STIC production tubes are produced to the following standards 2.870mm (aka .113A) and the 2.900mm (aka .114A”). Larger Alcohol sizes are available. Here are the needles that are available. These measurements are approximate.
    Keihin Stock, NVZA: .105” Tip: .073”
    JD Blue: IIII (STIC) .1062” Tip: .055”
    JD red: II-II (STIC) .1072” Tip: .055”
    JD red: II .1065 Tip: .073”
    N3EJ: Yamaha .1075 Tip: .075”
    Suzuki NEDK: .1082 Tip: .055
    ¶ 7 For the last eight years the STIC has been field and dyno-tested all over the world; ranging from sea level to +12,000 feet. Dramatic changes in temperature and elevation do not require any major adjustments. If you have an earlier model STIC; there is a new free (STIC Tube .113A — 2.870 mm) upgrade; you must send the entire block and tube to STIC Headquarters. Send the STIC metering block and tube directly to STIC Headquarters for free tube upgrade. If you want everything checked including proper float level; send the entire carburetor with slide to STIC headquarters (no charge).

    ¶ 8 The STIC system is heavily emulsified and will typically use larger main and pilot jets. The STIC will work with jets, ranging from 178 to 220; the preferred setting for maximum performance will be in the 190 to 210 range; this applies to the 125 to 500cc engines. The pilot jet must be at the +50 range with the 50 being the best overall (this is part of the STIC power jet system). The air screw must be in the range of 2 to 4 turns out. New Keihin STIC carburetors from STIC have the new longer (+.100”), stronger steel spring; so, no worry about the air screw working loose. These new springs are available from TOKYO, Harris, and STIC factory. If STIC adjustments are needed; first work with the needle clip position, top clip will make the mixture leaner, the bottom clip will make it richer. Adjust accordingly to your preference. It is my estimation that one must use a needle with the top straight section being at least. +. 106" in diameter. this requires starting with the STIC JD red II-II (.1072”), STIC JD Blue IIII (.1062”), the Yamaha N3EJ at .1075" and the Suzuki NEDK needle is +. 108." I suggest working with these three primary needles; ultimately you could use the original Keihin needle is you want more fuel everywhere.

    STIC tuning procedure; first verify the fundamentals

    ¶ 9 Be sure to check for a clean air filter, check the reed cage for any petal wear. Check the float needle valve for wear (STIC recommends changing the float needle once a year); set the float according to specs (there are several great videos). Do not run the vent lines into the airbox; this will cause the carburetor to run lean. Do not run the fuel bowl overflow vent tube in an upward position; it must be pointed down; if you run the vent lines upward make sure they are pointed down at their ends

    ¶ 10 Even though others may disagree; the engine should be warm before attempting any STIC jetting decisions. Believe it or not; oil and fuel can and do accumulate in the case, transfers, and combustion chamber from the prior carburetor. When installing the STIC metering system; and before making final jetting selections; here is my advice; install a new spark plug and run the STIC for at least 30 minutes at various speeds to help clear the case, cylinder, head combustion area, and the engine of any raw fuel and left from the previous carburetor.

    ¶ 11 Before making any major jetting changes; first, experiment with moving the needle up and down; the top clip (#1) is leaner; the bottom clip (#5) is richer. When you feel you have a good needle position selection and having the air screw at the recommended settings; adjust the front air screw in small increments; not going below 2 turns. A larger air screw setting air-corrects the larger pilot jet and allows more air to go into the main jet power inlet. Going to a larger slide will also correct a low-end richness. The standard aftermarket Keihin Shorty comes with a 6.5 slide; JD Jetting has the larger #7 and #8 slides. In summary, do not be lured into using a smaller pilot and main jet; the main and pilot are designed to do certain things in harmony, and they are heavily air corrected. Even though the STIC will run with smaller jets, there is a substantial increase in power and better mileage by using the larger jets. The STIC is heavily emulsified with air and other forces; using the smaller main jet will tempt you into making corrections in the wrong manner. The STIC has a multiplying (increasing) power system; increasing fuel curve, and instant acceleration; no need for wings or additional power jets.

    Greater Power; with the STIC using premium recreational gas; 91/94 octance:

    ¶ 12 Jetting your engine for maximum performance with the STIC depends on modifications, pipes, ignition type, temperatures, atmospheric pressures. Fuel types such as oxygenated fuels may require larger main and pilot jets; do not be afraid to experiment with larger main and pilot jets while using conventional fuels as well as oxygenated fuels. When using oxygenated fuels consider using the stock Keihin needles in the lower clips. We find the STIC metering system sees no loss in horsepower and torque with less compression (2 points less) and less timing (2o less).
    ¶ 13 Due to the fact the STIC system will allow the engine to have expanded over-rev; STIC recommends having a deck clearance of +.050” — increasing the deck clearance to .070” shows no loss of power. Due to the overrev feature of the STIC; consider using a longer pipe or head spacer of ¼” — ½” and you will have the best of both worlds; greater torque and overrev.

    Oil ratio (rich-lean) in jetting indications.

    ¶ 14 Your oil ratio to fuel will affect jetting; typically, the oil ratio range should be 40:1; more oil less fuel (leaner). Less oil (60:1) will make the carburetor rich; check with your buddies and engine builders. It always better to be safe; however, there are many that run synthetics at 60:1.

    Engines 125/200:

    ¶ 15 As remarkable as it may seem; the 125/500cc engines will jet with a #200 main jet, #50 pilot with the JD Red STIC (II-II) needle; and the JD Blue STIC Needle for the 500cc, and of course, one may jet as needed; first experimenting with the larger jets.

    Engines 300/500;

    ¶ 16 When using the .113A tube; the new STIC/JD blue needle (IIII) will give you similar flows equivalent to the .114 tubes. It is highly recommended that you utilize the new STIC JD Red (II-II) needle; this has the smaller .055” tip. For maximum flow select the lower clips #4 and #5 to determine if you need a larger main jet. It is critical to run the larger pilot jets in the 50/58 range as this provides more fuel for the STIC power circuit. The STIC is an entirely new process and requires learning new things; feel free to contact STIC headquarters for any assistance and upgrades; glad to help and answer any questions. Enjoy.

    Keihin 38mm or the 36mm?

    ¶ 17 STIC recommends the Keihin 38mm with STIC. The reason some manufactures use the 36mm is due to the stock carburetors' inability to accelerate with the larger 38mm; thus, they use the smaller bore to increase velocity and a greater shearing pressure drop at the tube outlet. This is not the case when using the 38/40mm STIC equipped metering system; the 38/40mm with STIC will develop greater horsepower as the STIC has a very aggressive acceleration feature along with a progressive fuel enrichment. There is no need for wings or power jets while using the STIC; in fact, they are discouraged. The STIC constantly senses torque demand and regulates the fuel delivery and vaporization levels increasing its output based on sensing changes in the environment (landscape changes) as well as rider demand.

    Installation of the KTM Cable after STIC carburetor Modification:

    ¶ 18 Remove the brass adapter; screw the cable directly into the cover; we have milled .200” for more cable free play; use the stock cable.

    STIC Fuel Systems — vortex@sticfuel.us
    P.O. Box 1119 or 3730 Hemlock Lane
    Eagle River, Wisconsin 54521 — Phone: 715-479-7822 (9:00am to 9:00pm central)

    https://youtu.be/wNkzUroFtVc

  6. #845
    KTMTalk Member
    Join Date
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    Surrey Downs
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    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by STIC Fuel Systems View Post
    From your recent posting addressing your use of the stock 36mm are you saying the stock 36mm with a mere increase in the main jet up 4 to 5 sizes and the pilot 1 to 2 sizes will be better than using a STIC Metering Block? We find the STIC outperforms the stock 36 by a substantial amount.
    No george my post was about the STIC block, the STIC bloc is allot better than the stock metering block, when u install STIC with a 113A tube you should increase pilot by a factor of 2, main jet by 5 and move the needle one notch richer as a base line, this is similar to what harris racing has posted on his web site for the ktms with a 36mm carb.

    I have run a pilot up to 4 sizes larger than the stock setup that was a 50p its to rich for 36mm carb, 48P works well and is a good option for racing with the 8 slide but for trail riding so far 45P seems to be the best, anything over a 185 main and you start to loose top speed and over rev, if your lean on the needle in the mid you can increase main up to a 200 and still runs well you just wont get the over rev as it becomes to rich when using small tip needles

    To be clear the STIC out performs the stock bloc by a long way.
    Last edited by dmills; Yesterday at 03:41 PM.

  7. #846

    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    George, for those of us that have invested a significant of time and money post marketing testing and development of your product, is there a simple way we can access the 114A tube without sending in a bunch of stuff?

    I've bought two stic blocks, two JD kits and ultimately, the 113A blocks I send in my 114 to exchange are too lean for my 125 application.

    I would like to run the 114A tubes, but would prefer not to remove and ship out two carbs for the second time.

    Thanks, Bruce

  8. #847

    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce372 View Post
    George, for those of us that have invested a significant of time and money post marketing testing and development of your product, is there a simple way we can access the 114A tube without sending in a bunch of stuff?

    I've bought two stic blocks, two JD kits and ultimately, the 113A blocks I send in my 114 to exchange are too lean for my 125 application.

    I would like to run the 114A tubes, but would prefer not to remove and ship out two carbs for the second time.

    Thanks, Bruce
    Send name, address, and KTM handle to vortex@sticfuel.us

  9. #848

    Default Re: STIC jetting thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by STIC Fuel Systems View Post
    Send name, address, and KTM handle to vortex@sticfuel.us
    Done thank you George!

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