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Thread: 2020 KTM Freeride E-XC and Sur Ron X Lap Time Comparison

  1. #1

    Default 2020 KTM Freeride E-XC and Sur Ron X Lap Time Comparison

    Just for fun I did a quick back to back lap time comparison of my 2020 KTM Freeride E-XC and Sur Ron X on a short woods loop. The Freeride did the lap in 1:45 while the Sur Ron X lap time was 1:50. I wanted to get a feel for the difference in lap times between the bikes. Obviously there is a big difference in power and weight between a Freeride (24 hp and 240 lbs) and Sur Ron X (6 hp and 110 lbs). The Sur Ron X is surprisingly capable for such a low powered and inexpensive bike. The Sur Ron X needs a brake pad upgrade to stop the brake noise and the stock tires are marginal. It feels like with about 4~6 more hp and better tires and suspension the Sur Ron could be right there lap time wise with a full size bike. Maybe the CAKE electric bike is close but at $14K MSRP it is very expensive.


    The Freeride hides it's weight well with an agile feel that is easy to ride on the tight trail. Full power Map 3 is the most fun way to ride the Freeride with a smooth initial power that ramps up and launches the bike forward. 0-30 mph is surprisingly quick on the Freeride. The acceleration out of the corners is impressive in Map 3! The Freeride’s battery can easily run 1~2 hours and weighs 62 lbs. I wish there was an option to have a lighter battery (target 30 lbs) that would run 30 minutes to an hour. Then I could do a 30 minute moto or woods session and change out to another lightweight battery or even the longer range battery. A Freeride with 30lbs less weight….that would be very fun in the woods or even MX track (with stiffer suspension).


    Both bikes offer stealth woods riding - perhaps the best part of the electric experience. I'll be doing more comparisons of the Freeride to my other regular gas powered bikes soon.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4f4...ature=youtu.be
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_6760.jpg  
    20 FX350 20 300 Erzberg 20 450 Factory Edition
    20 790R Adventure 16 Montesa 4RT

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  3. #2

    Default Re: 2020 KTM Freeride E-XC and Sur Ron X Lap Time Comparison

    Ive been thinking about getting myself a sur-ron, they look like a blast! Would be nice if someone developed a comparable bike that came with legit suspension/brakes

  4. #3

    Default Re: 2020 KTM Freeride E-XC and Sur Ron X Lap Time Comparison

    The idea of a half weight battery with the top empty has merit.

    Wonder what the results would be if I made the course and did the timing.

  5. #4

    Default Re: 2020 KTM Freeride E-XC and Sur Ron X Lap Time Comparison

    The size of the battery is baked into the design, unfortunately. The system demands about 260 volts. To make 20hp you need the battery to pour out 70 amps

    Lithium cells are good for 3.6 volts so you need to string 72 of them together in series. Each of the 72 has to pump out 70 amps or be stacked with enough buddy cells to be able to reach that output. KTM used 72 teams of 5 buddies working together to get 20 hp. If you reduce the number of buddies, you get less hp. Since the teams are so small, its hard to get big changes in weight by using stronger or lighter buddies in the team.

    Hopefully, mxengineer is also a batteryengineer

  6. #5

    Default Re: 2020 KTM Freeride E-XC and Sur Ron X Lap Time Comparison

    5 sets of 72, 360 cells. 18650 cells so using the same cells the choice would be 40% or 60% capacity. The earlier battery had sony cells and the current panasonic or maybe the other way around, the cells were the same size to my understanding. There are other sizes as well 21700 I think 21mm diameter 70mm long.


    An 18 volt battery tool seems to have the same power, whether using the small batteries with 5 cells or the larger battery with two sets of 5 in parallel just the battery goes empty sooner.


    The Zero FX currently the 3.6 version has one battery pack but a place to put a second one. It has the same torque at start just the horsepower is less than with two packs or the 7.2 version. Horsepower is torque times rpm, Electric bikes generally make a certain level of max torque which drops once max hp is achieved, max hp stays as rpm goes to max as torque falls.


    I found this picture of the insides of the battery. Obviously it has a lot of stuff inside that are not cells.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ktm battery pix.jpg  

  7. #6

    Default Re: 2020 KTM Freeride E-XC and Sur Ron X Lap Time Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by fran...K. View Post


    An 18 volt battery tool seems to have the same power, whether using the small batteries with 5 cells or the larger battery with two sets of 5 in parallel just the battery goes empty sooner.
    My experience with power tools has been the opposite, larger battery packs provide more torque.
    '18 300XCW,
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  8. #7

    Default Re: 2020 KTM Freeride E-XC and Sur Ron X Lap Time Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Suva View Post
    My experience with power tools has been the opposite, larger battery packs provide more torque.
    It all depends on the cells that are used. Some are higher capacity and some are higher power (higher current).
    --------------------------------------------
    2016 Husky FE350S
    2015 Freeride 250R

  9. #8

    Default Re: 2020 KTM Freeride E-XC and Sur Ron X Lap Time Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by islandlife View Post
    Ive been thinking about getting myself a sur-ron, they look like a blast! Would be nice if someone developed a comparable bike that came with legit suspension/brakes
    The Sur-ron requires a lot of chassis mods to feel "right" but after all that I'm* as fast or faster on it than my 300xc or Freeride 250r on most singletracks**. People trying to keep up often crash when I can brake later and turn tighter.
    Mods:
    Air fork (Fox 40, Marz 58, Suntour Rux)
    500lb shock spring and/or better shock
    Front wheel and tire, 26x3" MTB DH or 21" moto (MTB is lighter but only 1 tire option, moto is heavy with lots of tires)
    50mm rise handlebar
    Shimano H03C brake pads and good bleed or Sram Code brakes
    Pegs in rear position
    54t sprocket and axle at very back of slots (requires grinding brake carrier peg and longer adjustment bolts)
    Duro HF307 3.25" rear tire with some transition knobs cut off
    Plastic skid plate
    Remove kickstand and all 4 "sensors"
    Remove lights

    *The Sur-ron works because it's light. Best for sub 160lb riders and if you're over 180lb don't expect thrilling acceleration or as much range. My 230lb neighbor wanted one but I talked him into a Freeride-E instead. FWIW, I get nearly twice the range he does. Electric hates weight and drag.

    **Get into open, soft, or very rough terrain and the extra power and suspension of a "real dirtbike" win the day. The Sur-ron shines on hard pack with tight turns and hops so well that throwing in some logs helps it pull away from all but very talented riders.
    Last edited by Lelandjt; 06-12-2020 at 08:34 AM.
    Keep the country country

  10. #9

    Default Re: 2020 KTM Freeride E-XC and Sur Ron X Lap Time Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by fran...K. View Post
    5 sets of 72, 360 cells. 18650 cells so using the same cells the choice would be 40% or 60% capacity. The earlier battery had sony cells and the current panasonic or maybe the other way around, the cells were the same size to my understanding. There are other sizes as well 21700 I think 21mm diameter 70mm long.


    An 18 volt battery tool seems to have the same power, whether using the small batteries with 5 cells or the larger battery with two sets of 5 in parallel just the battery goes empty sooner.


    The Zero FX currently the 3.6 version has one battery pack but a place to put a second one. It has the same torque at start just the horsepower is less than with two packs or the 7.2 version. Horsepower is torque times rpm, Electric bikes generally make a certain level of max torque which drops once max hp is achieved, max hp stays as rpm goes to max as torque falls.


    I found this picture of the insides of the battery. Obviously it has a lot of stuff inside that are not cells.
    Battery is arranged as a three layer cake, each 24s5p with its own bms on each layer

    http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/e...eride-e-sm.php

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