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Thread: SG-12s or Crossfire 3s or other?

  1. #51
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    Default Re: SG-12s or Crossfire 3s or other?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brtp4 View Post
    My flipping POS flipping PC blue screened, and I lost my original draft of this post. Here is my best attempt at recreating it:



    Regarding sizing, technically, neither Sidi nor Gaerne makes half sizes. Both make in EU sizes and then convert those to US sizing, in a subjective way. Sidi's US sizing is a little more precise, Gaerne's is slightly fudged slightly smaller than it actually is, because that is more forgiving. But again, that is not the point as they work / think / produce / sell in EU scale, and both fit similar when you compare EU sizing.

    Indirectly, Gaerne does sorta make a few half sizes. Way back when they were developing the US market they made ONE special sized last for the US, a 44.5, which they convert to a 10. Recently, they decided to start also importing the EU market only 44s and 45s. SG-12s and SG-10s only ATM. IMO these sizes are not really necessary to get a good fit, and it was done for "channel stuffing" reasons. But they now offer 44, 44.5, 45. Typically there are 5mm - ONE FIFTH of an inch - grade from one EU size to the next, a pretty small increment. The difference from 44 <> 44.5 <> 45 would be 2.5 mm. That is within production tolerance.

    The hurdle to get past in sizing is the fact that 1 EU size does not equal one US size. It is about 7/10s of a US size. Italy develops most of their models in 43, either a 9 US (Gaerne) or 9.5 US (Sidi), but the US size is irrelevant, both are actually the same size, a 43. When you start grading up from that size, the farther you go, the more you have to fudge the conversion, because it is 7/10s a US size. You can see it right here on a Sidi box:

    Attachment 40153




    I am getting a pretty good view of the durability of both. I have my own stats over the last 10 years, plus watching on social media for complaints in my spare time.

    Cactus is basically correct, as long as we are comparing welt sole to welt sole, there is not a significant difference in quality. Both are basically good. If there is one that has an advantage, Gaerne does seem to be slightly better for durability. I just do not have failures on Gaernes. Seriously, almost never. They can get to the point where they feel sloppy, but they are almost always still intact. There were the fluo orange ones that exploded from a bad batch of plastic, that bit 69Fastback. Most of them failed quickly, I think his lasted a couple years before falling apart. Still, he did get hosed IMO.

    Fundamentally, regarding sewing, molding, assembly, consistency, Sidi truly is world class. But, a few elements of their design and some of their specíing seem to be responsible for most of the failures. I see a lot of people talking about the sole base of the SRS separating from the upper of the boot. Secondly, they use a synthetic leather called ďTechnomicroĒ or ďLoricaĒ on several of their boots. The material is lighter and more consisten to manufacture (leather is a hassle to work with). Microfibers are not terrible, but they do not hold up to heavy abrasion as well as leather. It is possible to cover more of the boot with plastic to mitigate this FYI. Anyway, if you look at Sidi complaints, these two factors are often involved. I do not see this as a reflection of their quality, but rather a reflection of choices by the product managers. Itís not the brands fault. It is not a drop in quality. It is errors by the R+D team. That is the product manager in me.

    Cactus is spot-on about the SRS sole preventing dorsiflexion injuries. They are a very common injury in off road and the CF SRS protects against it better than any boot on the market IMO. You could use a Crossfire SRS as a jack stand and it will not bend. This is a very, very good element of the SRS, and a good reason to choose one, despite other factors.

    Cactus, Gaerne sells quite a few more boots than Sidi in the US. Not really important, just reference info.

    Sidi Crossfires are very complicated products. Gaernes use far fewer pieces, which is admirable. Look hard at an SG-12, it is a pretty simple product. That is easier to manufacture, lower cost, and generally less prone to failure. If you notice, the new Atojos are much more simple than the Crossfires. But they do not have a welt sole.

    An opinion: if someone removes the toe cap or knocks it off on a welt sole boot, and keeps riding that way, and keeps bashing into rocks, the sole will tear off the boot, not matter what it is. That is their own fault, not the boot.

    One point that I think is important: If someone has a boot issue, they are likely to conclude that boot has insufficient quality. However, that conclusion is singular, and not in the context of how that (perhaps failed) boot compares to other boots. For example, in my experience almost any Sidi or Gaerne or Forma will outlast some of the very popular, squishy, bonded sole models. Sometimes I see someone who has trashed a pair of boots, and I know that several other models would have fared worse, not lasted as long, grenade sooner. Switching brands will not help.

    If someone is looking for a recommendation for the best boots, Sidi and Gaerne are at the top of the list. There are certainly people who had bad experiences, but these two brands undeniably set the bar. Forma is in the same zone. Alps and TCX have some excellent models. Then there is 50 feet of air, then everyone else.

    Hope that helps.

    BP

    Great post. It even called out what I do. Tear off the two clip and ride until the sole starts coming off from bashing rocks! I did this to my Forma's. I did like that this post mentioned the Forma's. My experience with one pair showed them to be very reliable and great protection. My reverence is boot is the Gaerne SG 10.

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: SG-12s or Crossfire 3s or other?

    I've been running the Sidi Crossfire 3s specifically for the stiff sole but it looks like I'm going to have to switch up brands. I had an issue with my Crossfire 3s where the stitching started to come apart. Sidi warrantied the boots but now the soles on the warranty pair have started to delaminate after less than a season of riding.
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  4. #53
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    Default Re: SG-12s or Crossfire 3s or other?

    I run the crossfire 3 srs. For me they are the only boots that fit me right and Iím a big guy and I go through at least 1-2 pairs of soles per year. It just is not economical on any boot that I have to send off and spend $20-$30 shipping each way plus $100 for new soles. I have the same problem with the non replaceable part of the sole coming loose at the toe. Luckily itís a super easy fix. Take two or three screws about 1-1/4Ē or so long and screw the sole on to the boot in front of where your toe actually reaches in the boot. Iíve done this on my last three pair over the last 6 or so years. The screws hold great and no more soles coming off. I keep a spare set of soles handy and replace them when needed in about 15 mins and about $25.

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    Default Re: SG-12s or Crossfire 3s or other?

    If anyone has a nice pair of size 47 with the sole coming off they want to sell cheap let me know. Iíll fix em and ride on.

  6. #55
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    Default Re: SG-12s or Crossfire 3s or other?

    Well, 1st ride on the boots. Definitely hate breaking in boots but these felt better on break in then any of my prior boots (Sidi X-3s, Tech 7s and Tech 3s).

    Very comfy and supportive when I was standing on the pegs. Pretty good brake and shifter feel. Good feel through the soles. I like that the soles have a curve to them towards the front which makes it easier to shift. Great protective feel and tons of ankle support. My Sidis are so blown out they feel like a running show in comparison.

    Walking and when no pressure is on the boot they make my ankles pretty sore. After 40 miles I was definitely ready to get them off. However, the Sidis literally took the skin off my ankles and I had to wear neoprene ankle braces to protect them. The SG-12s have far superior padding and no chaffing. I just think my ankles were sore from break in, hopefully. I feel like my Tech 7s were bulkier and less feel and I also remember them hurting my ankles. I have a narrow foot but must have big/wide ankles.
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  7. #56
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    Default Re: SG-12s or Crossfire 3s or other?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus73 View Post
    The Tech 7 shouldn't be mentioned in the same conversation as the Crossfire 3's, unless you don't value protection. The flimsy toe box and gigantic buckle on top of the foot should be enough reason for anybody to avoid that boot.
    Totally agree. I used Tech 8's for 15 years, then I had a Tech 7 and now a Sidi 3 SRS. The Sidi is in every way better than the Tech 7. I hated the Tech 7 buckles, they hang all the time and open all the time. It is bad design at least. Also the protection is very, very poor when compared to the Sidi. Of course all this is expected as the Tech 7 is half the price.

    With the Sidi 3 SRS I got MUCH more comfort and stability. I have the enduro soles and it provides all the traction I need. But it is not a boot for wider feet. The SG12's are better if that is the case.
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  8. #57
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    Default Re: SG-12s or Crossfire 3s or other?

    I ordered some SG-12's after hearing the issues with the Sidi's.
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    Default Re: SG-12s or Crossfire 3s or other?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    I ordered some SG-12's after hearing the issues with the Sidi's.
    Who has a good price on the SG-12ís

  10. #59
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    Default Re: SG-12s or Crossfire 3s or other?

    I did not shop much. $476 at Motosport, which my local dealer matched.
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    Default Re: SG-12s or Crossfire 3s or other?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    I did not shop much. $476 at Motosport, which my local dealer matched.
    $439 with free shipping is the best Iíve found so far.

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