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Thread: FRONT BRAKE PROBLEMS

  1. #221
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    Default Re: FRONT BRAKE PROBLEMS

    DJH thank you for your method worked awesome for me brake is better than it ever been
    If you have trouble with your front brake this works awesome
    Bob

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  3. #222
    KTMTalk Member dmac1's Avatar
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    Default Re: FRONT BRAKE PROBLEMS

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtbikeace View Post
    Sounds like you got lucky, I lived with working on it everyday for a year and swapped out to a Nissin and never touched it again. I can't imagine the deal KTM got to buy this junk that everyone has complained about for 18 years.
    ^^^This^^^.

    And my bike has now pretty much sat for 2+ years since I got my 300. Rode it on one 3 day trip in September and a couple single days earlier in the spring. I didn't touch it in 2016 other than a fall ride on the roads around my house. Lever is solid and has been solid ever since I put on the Nissin. NO way it was before I put on the Nissin and I tried all the other 'fixes'. They never lasted. The problem has to be in the master cylinder.

    You wanna know whats funny? I almost think KTM put on a short kick stand so the bike would lean waaay left to keep the m/c high to mitigate the brake problem!! Hows that for a conspiracy theory? LOL
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  4. #223
    KTMTalk Member dirtbikeace's Avatar
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    Default Re: FRONT BRAKE PROBLEMS

    Quote Originally Posted by dmac1 View Post
    ^^^This^^^.

    And my bike has now pretty much sat for 2+ years since I got my 300. Rode it on one 3 day trip in September and a couple single days earlier in the spring. I didn't touch it in 2016 other than a fall ride on the roads around my house. Lever is solid and has been solid ever since I put on the Nissin. NO way it was before I put on the Nissin and I tried all the other 'fixes'. They never lasted. The problem has to be in the master cylinder.

    You wanna know whats funny? I almost think KTM put on a short kick stand so the bike would lean waaay left to keep the m/c high to mitigate the brake problem!! Hows that for a conspiracy theory? LOL
    Now that the X-files are back that may be an upcoming episode that will solve this.
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  5. #224
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    Default Re: FRONT BRAKE PROBLEMS

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtbikeace View Post
    Sounds like you got lucky, I lived with working on it everyday for a year and swapped out to a Nissin and never touched it again. I can't imagine the deal KTM got to buy this junk that everyone has complained about for 18 years.

    To my FC450 I have Fitted New Caliper seals, New Master Kit, Drilled Banjo bolts, vacuum / pressure bled System - Result still spongey.

    I Found a used 2006 CRF450 front master. installed . Pumped lever 5 - 6 times, brakes bled , Lever rock hard.

    I have several customers with the same problem. I expect some brembo masters are ok but others are bad tolerance.
    Mostly this appears on 2012 onwards bikes even low hours. With an older bike say 2008 a master kit normal fixes problem
    but I have now had several 2016 models where it has not helped. I think the small bore either wears out quickly or
    is just not the right tolerance. Either way the Nissin master works great with the brembo calipers.

    Not sure if someone can list all the suitable donor master cylinder but the 06 and earlier CR/CRF has the brake line fitting in similar
    place. You will need the Honda bolt 8x1.25 as the KTM one is fine 8x1.0?

  6. #225
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    Default Re: FRONT BRAKE PROBLEMS

    Quote Originally Posted by Hokie View Post
    The best fix I found out about (thanks to MikeS300!!) for the crappy intermittent spongy front brake was to replace the POS master cylinder with a NISSIN unit from a late model Honda.

    No problems after that.


    Be sure to get the Honda banjo bolt too.
    Did you have any issue with the location of brake line bolt. Did hose have a natural bend in it where it goes down behind front plate etc.
    I fitted an 06 as the shape/design is very similar to the brembo in regards to mount points and it was basically just straight bolt on using honda bolt.

    I have just got the go ahead from customer to source one so a late model would be bette condition used. They are bit pricey new

  7. #226
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    Default Re: FRONT BRAKE PROBLEMS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fridh View Post
    To my FC450 I have Fitted New Caliper seals, New Master Kit, Drilled Banjo bolts, vacuum / pressure bled System - Result still spongey.

    I Found a used 2006 CRF450 front master. installed . Pumped lever 5 - 6 times, brakes bled , Lever rock hard.

    I have several customers with the same problem. I expect some brembo masters are ok but others are bad tolerance.
    Mostly this appears on 2012 onwards bikes even low hours. With an older bike say 2008 a master kit normal fixes problem
    but I have now had several 2016 models where it has not helped. I think the small bore either wears out quickly or
    is just not the right tolerance. Either way the Nissin master works great with the brembo calipers.

    Not sure if someone can list all the suitable donor master cylinder but the 06 and earlier CR/CRF has the brake line fitting in similar
    place. You will need the Honda bolt 8x1.25 as the KTM one is fine 8x1.0?
    I have exact same problem with front brake in my KTM EXC-F 250 MY2007. I have put in all possible repair kits, new hose etc... One bike expert bleeded my brakes, they were best that my bike had ever got... ...two months and lever goes to rubber :/
    I think its Nissin time. Could you give spare part number/type code of suitable Nissin MC to my 2007 bike?

  8. #227
    KTMTalk Member traver's Avatar
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    Default Re: FRONT BRAKE PROBLEMS

    Awesome thread....I'm working on my super spongy front brake problem right now....with some success....but I doubt I will ever solve it.

    I have one question...can anyone tell me the proper torque setting for tightening the banjo bolts?? The bike is a 2012 350 XCF-W.

    Thanks
    It's What They Don't Tell You That You Need To Know!
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  9. #228
    KTMTalk Member adam728's Avatar
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    Default Re: FRONT BRAKE PROBLEMS

    Another Nissin convert here.

    2011 300 XCW. Front brake was just a bit spongy last year, no matter how I bled it. Wasn't terrible, but just seemed like braking took more lever travel than it should have. Over the winter I did the following:
    • New disc (was heavily worn, and a bit rusty)
    • New pads
    • Caliper rebuild kit
    • New Galfer line (line on the bike looked to have been pinched or folded, had a damaged spot)
    • Master cylinder rebuild kit
    • Drilled banjo bolt so air shouldn't get trapped


    Bled it. Back-bled it with a syringe. Pulled it off the bike and bled it both ways with the master cylinder mounted up on the wall. Did the same, but with the caliper up high. Snapped the lever. Pushed caliper pistons back in. Cracked either banjo open while holding brake pressure. Zip-tied the lever in overnight. Etc etc.

    I could not get a good lever feel out of it. Always just seemed a little mushier than it should be. Worse yet, it was inconsistent. Occasionally it would get 1 lever pull where it felt great. Just as occasionally it would seemingly build no pressure. Release, grab again, felt like it's normal half mush.

    Bought a 2006 CRF450 master cylinder from eBay, rebuilt it*, bled it in about 2 minutes, and put about 4 hours on it last weekend with excellent feel and consistency.





    * When buying from eBay "Ready to bolt on and go" means the screws for the cover need to be drilled out, because they are cones that a bit cannot even be hammered into. And the reservoir is filled with a strange clear goo that resembles dielectric grease, and the outlet to the banjo bolt has a hard, crusty, crumbly substance in it that looks like wet drywall board. And the lever has been adjusted to the shortest reach possible to help hide how badly bent it is.
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  10. #229
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    Default Re: FRONT BRAKE PROBLEMS

    This is a typically great thread from ktmtalk members. But, unless I missed it, I didnít see anything addressing my front brake problem, so Iíll ask.

    My 2004 450exc-g front brake lever does not engage until half way back towards the throttle. When I do grab it, it works well, but a full stop requires the lever to come back almost to the throttle. Which is suboptimal if youíre trying to two finger the front brake.

    Itís not spongy, but I still bled the crap out of it to be sure. It improves only slightly if I pump it up, so a tiny bit of air exists, but it doesnít move out to add travel.

    Iíve adjusted the plastic lever starting position screw all the way out. Would help if it was twice as long.

    Would a rebuild of this Brembo master help or is there another problem going on?

    Many thanks.
    Rob
    Love all riding, but dirt is just the best!

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  11. #230
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    Default Re: FRONT BRAKE PROBLEMS

    Just stumbled back into this thread that never ends after fighting my 14 front brake from line replacement. In summary try all that is mentioned on front brake bleeding but what ALWAYS works for me is-
    Remove caliper and set on floor, secure so pistons are pointing up. Just clamp it with a C-clamp or wedge it into something.
    Remove MC and suspend from ceiling (garage door track and coat hanger for me) with line oriented such that any bubble goes uphill all the way.
    Operate the lever and restrain the pistons equally such that you are able to remove BOTH pistons by hydraulically blowing then out, If you cannot use the MC to do this just push then out with a blow gun with rubber tip at line or bleeder, regulate the compressor down so the when the piston leaves the caliper it does not leave a dent in your forehead. Might want to cover them with a towel.
    With pistons removed fill caliper fully with brake fluid, crack bleeder and let it run out then tighten, do what you can to force or fill the line by using a syringe from the MC end (elevated),or simply filling the MC reservoir and letting it gravity fill the line, let it bleed out at the banjo bolt (lowered) on caliper. Just trying to pre-fill with fluid. With caliper fully filled insert pistons at same time and press them slightly into bores, with assistant squeeze pistons back into bores while you let fluid slightly leak from caliper banjo bolt then MC banjo bolt (might help to tap line and or fittings while tightening to bounce bubble out) .
    Do this and there is no air anywhere, this method sounds difficult but it really is not. Works every time and you will have a sold lever with no air.
    Side notes-
    Cleans the crap out of then MC and caliper before starting this and be clean.
    Replace the copper washers, I suspect that they are part of the culprit as the machined surfaces could be not fully flat.
    I use cheap DOT 3 for the front use what you want for the rear, if the front is clean you should never overheat it and don't need anything fancy as the higher rated fluids suck up more moisture anyway.
    The stock KTM MC is stronger than the Nissan swap. I do not know the MM of fluid displaced per stroke vs the Nissan but part of the problem is that it is less so air has a more pronounced effect. This is also why the KTM brake is feels stronger.

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